Senator Rebecca Saldaña Fights for Environmental Justice and Warns of Ballot Threats

Campaign Website - Rebecca Saldaña

“Senate passes Saldaña’s HEAL Act to ensure environmental justice” from Washington State Senate Democrats

Washington’s Environmental Justice Law (HEAL Act) | Washington State Department of Ecology

Environmental Justice | Washington State Department of Health

@team_saldana on Twitter/X: “It’s still with a heavy heart that I will not continue in the Public Lands race — just because my presence and our voice are no longer in this race, it doesn’t mean we won’t be heard. This is why I want to share with you my demands of the next Public Lands Commissioner.”

No on 2117

No on 2109

No on 2124

[00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review show and our Tuesday topical show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, the most helpful thing you can do is leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes.

So I am absolutely thrilled to be welcoming Senator Rebecca Saldaña to the show today, who is - in my estimation - the most effective legislator when it comes to pushing great, just environmental policy here in the state. And policy overall - you've been incredibly effective in being instrumental in passing some of the most consequential, transformative policy that we've passed in decades here in Washington. So welcome, Senator Saldaña.

[00:01:27] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Thank you so much, Crystal. It's so great to be here and really excited for the conversation.

[00:01:32] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Well, I think I want to start off just talking about a piece of legislation that you championed, led the passage of - and that is transforming the way that so many entities do business across the state. And that was the HEAL Act. Can you talk about what the HEAL Act is, what it does, and how it's doing?

[00:01:55] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah, thank you so much. So the HEAL Act stands for the Healthy Environment for All Act, and it was established in 2021. But we first introduced it a couple years prior and ended up with a task force with long recommendations. And when we were able then to pass it as legislation, what it is - is it puts environmental justice, defines it in statute. And then it has seven of our agencies that are now covered by it - and they must not only recognize environmental justice as a core part of their statute, they need to create community engagement plans that incorporate environmental justice, they need to create an implementation plan to make sure that it addresses their large investments and programs, and include it into their strategic frameworks and their plans. And this includes our seven agencies - the largest ones are Department of Transportation, Department of Health, we have Department of Natural Resources, we have Puget Sound Partnership that has joined. We have Department of Agriculture, Department of Commerce. And my seventh one, it will come to me - maybe someone listening can type it in for us [Department of Ecology]. The biggest piece too is it creates an Environmental Justice Task Force that the majority of people are people that live on the frontlines - what environmental justice is are people that are most disproportionately impacted by our polluting economy and have disparate impacts and so when we talk about environmental justice principles, the idea is that people most impacted are engaged in helping create policy. And when we're looking at the outcomes of that policy, have disproportionate benefit from that - because we know that our economy, our programs, they always have benefits and burdens. And current status quo without environmental justice in statute is that certain folks get overburdened constantly and are under-resourced, while those that benefit are few and far between. And so that's the balance is - as we're looking at our economy or pollution, we know that we're not going to solve everything. But it's about sharing and spreading that so that people that have been historically impacted can start benefiting and see some improvements in their lives. And it really stems back into just general equity and justice, which is when you center those that have been furthest from - on the margins - and put them at the center, you end up with better policy for yourself and better outcomes, not just for those folks, but for all of us. And this is something we learned from the disability community, this is something that we know from the work that we've been doing for a very long time before I got into the Legislature.

[00:04:33] Crystal Fincher: So obviously a major piece of legislation. How are you seeing that play out in policy and decisions so far?

[00:04:43] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah, well, the biggest part was the HEAL Act was coming along right when we also were saying that as a state, we have got to face our climate crisis, that this is an emergency. We had the biggest heat waves, we had fires, we were seeing and hearing across the state - and across the world - that we cannot just put our heads in the sand. We have got to recognize that there is a climate crisis. And how we get our nation and the international community to do something about it is making sure that we do our part here in Washington state. And so environmental justice is centered and built into the Climate Commitment Act, which puts a price on carbon and pollution and makes our biggest polluters pay. And that revenue then is about how we transition - a just transition for the workforce, for environmental justice communities, for our tribes, and for our economy so that we can have a clean-fueled future. And the biggest pollution source was transportation and our transportation sector. So as Vice-Chair of Transportation at the time, it was really important for me that we put a price on carbon, that we made sure that we incorporate environmental justice in that. And then that would be a source of revenue to help us transition our transportation sector from being the biggest polluting source to one that we can be proud of as a clean energy sector. So that was really core - 35-40% of the dollars that are generated from the Climate Commitment Act, which we just had our first year of generating the revenue last year. And that money then is happening right now, being implemented, and directed towards environmental justice communities, to tribes, to every corner of our state to be able to begin that infrastructure change from polluted sources to clean energy. So that's electrification, that's car sharing, that's our ports, and our trucks - drayage trucks - it is programs to embed solar over irrigation ditches in the Yakama Nation. These are some of the things. But also what we're seeing is agencies that are covered by the HEAL Act are engaging with communities upfront and making sure that they're informing how they're thinking about their programs as they're starting to implement. And so those are a couple of examples.

[00:07:05] Crystal Fincher: Awesome. Excellent. Well, you made news recently and have been involved recently in the race for Commissioner of Public Lands, which is a really consequential position in our state, especially when it comes to addressing climate change, managing so much of the lands in our state in cooperation with sovereign nations and tribes - both in rural and in urban areas, just in every corner of the state - doing a lot. You entered that race, ended up exiting that race. So I guess what motivated you to get into the race and then out of it?

[00:07:43] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah, thank you for that question. So as we said, one of the big monumental victories was to get the HEAL Act, Climate Commitment Act, and the Move Ahead Washington Transportation package - and so we were just beginning to start implementing and see that it's making a difference. But at the scale and the scope of climate change, we need to make sure that we are using our natural resources and getting in right relationship with our tribes, with our EJ communities, and our lands to make sure that we are partnering with Mother Earth to make sure that we are not just protecting our natural resources but actually leveraging and in right relationship can actually have our natural resources help us fight climate change. So that's with carbon sequestration, that's making sure that we're updating the way that we manage our forests, and making sure that we are thinking about our rural and our urban communities and those workers that are on the frontlines. So I think many people may know that my first job was as a farmworker organizer and working with agricultural workers. So even though we were improving in this Legislature with policy protections for that workforce, their working environment is getting harder and worse because of climate change. And that's the same for construction workers, and for our firefighters, and our frontline workers, our childcare workers, and people that are just trying to get outside - this was becoming harder for them. And so the opportunity to take the policies that I have been working on for the last eight years and the idea of being an executive of a agency that is part of the HEAL Act, but I would say is probably the agency that has struggled the most to actually really implement the HEAL Act - because it is the agency that is the least diverse. It is the agency that has been most isolated, or separate from the executive branch because it does have its own elected person. And it has historically been one of those agencies that is under the radar for most Washingtonians. It is usually like a handful at most of environmentalists that really understand the possibility of this role, and traditional old Big Timber and Big Ag that have - their whole framework of their business is commodification of our resources. And when you're commodified, it's really hard to find and add value - and they are not prone to change quickly - they like the way things have been for the last 150 years. And so that's who normally plays in this. And so the idea of being able to shine a light on this agency and the possibility of it by bringing immigrant communities and environmental justice communities and partnering with our sovereign nations - along with the environmentalists, along with our rural communities that depend on our natural resources to generate revenue and economic value to their communities was really exciting. And as someone that has been working for decades in coalition building and really trying to do hard things with lots of different people of different backgrounds, it felt like an exciting challenge and one that would help really put into practice - What does it look like to implement from an agency perspective with 2,400 workers and all these different people at stake? Can we imagine - with this new Climate Commitment Act, we have new tools to be able to generate different revenues that could add value and also allow us to have more diverse forests that are more resilient to the fires and to the heat and to climate change?

And so that was the excitement - that's why I jumped in the race. And I do not have control over all aspects of my life. And so just as I was jumping in, that is also when I got diagnosed with Stage 2 ovarian cancer - I was really lucky that we found it early. But I was doing both of these things at the same time of really taking on and accepting cancer and being very grateful to have surgery, have it all removed. But the regimen for prevention and protection of my body included chemotherapy sessions that overlapped with the start of my CPL race. And then also I was still legislating.

[00:12:06] Crystal Fincher: So you got in, obviously - life happened and you made the decision to get out of the race. Can you talk a little bit more about your decision to exit the race?

[00:12:16] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah. So life did happen, but also these initiatives happened right at the same time. We have three initiatives that are looking to roll back so much of what I am most proud about that we were able to accomplish in the Legislature in the last eight years, which is to modernize our infrastructure of care so that Washingtonians can have some relief and be able to work - whether it's childcare infrastructure or whether it's long-term care or paid family medical leave - these are huge wins. And the other big one is putting a price on carbon and making sure that big polluters are paying so that we can have clean air and water and a future worthy of the children that I have the privilege of raising and being part of and being connected with. And so as much as I wanted to be the next CPL, it became really clear to me that no one's going to be successful in that CPL role if we don't beat back these initiatives and make sure that we continue to get ourselves out of the bottom - the most regressive state in the nation - which we did because we put a price on carbon, we have the capital gains and having the wealthiest among us pay their fair share to build infrastructure of care for our youngest. And so I think that piece that we've done - we are just putting the foundation on the ground of what this new future for Washington should look like, where we actually have a chance to work and have some ease.

Because otherwise what we're seeing is continued disparity between those that have the most and have all the ease and those of us who have less and never get to ease. Because we won't be able to know that our elders are cared for when they have an injury or when one of us - including me at 47, being diagnosed with cancer and being able to thankfully get out of that. But I have too many people that have shared their stories with me that are younger than me, that their prognoses are not as bright and their families need this long-term care now. I'm about movement. I'm about making sure Washington is leading the way, that we're putting people first and - including my own health first. And so that combination of being able to do that really made it harder and harder for me to see a pathway of running as CPL and really it made me think about - we just have laid the cement for this foundation. How do we make sure and how do I use my one life to do my utmost to give us space to let the cement dry so that we can consider what does it look like to build a democracy that is responsive to the felt needs of the people of Washington and that actually shows that we can do good things together? And we can fight climate change. We can fight inequities. We can actually provide more health and ease for the people of Washington, but only if we're willing to stand up and use our time to put ourselves in the defensive mode to protect what we have gained and give it a chance to grow. So that's why I left the race, because we need to spend all of our time saying no to these initiatives and yes to a future that is worthy of the people of Washington. So that's why I got out - because I want the next CPL to be successful and they will have no chance if we aren't able to keep the Climate Commitment Act going forward and aren't able to keep holding polluters and the wealthiest among us accountable and included in paying their fair share to the future that we all deserve.

[00:15:58] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And as much as I love women in executive positions - and especially BIPOC women in executive positions, especially statewide executive positions - I think it's so important to have the kind of conversation that you have had publicly to talk about prioritizing your health, how important that is, and also how important it is to keep our eye on the bigger ball here. As you say, no one is going to have a chance to be successful if we do basically repeal so much of the infrastructure that makes our state work and that lays the foundation for being able to address the biggest challenges that we face today. So as we look at these initiatives, what will it mean if they were to be successful?

[00:16:53] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Oh, man. So the biggest one, which is Initiative 2117 - That would repeal the Climate Commitment Act. And this is billions of dollars - even in the first year that we're seeing, it's significant revenue that we are using to be able to fund the 16-year Transportation Package that is only in Year 2. So all the other 14 years worth of projects, including Highway 18 for those that care about the safety on that road that goes right along Snoqualmie Tribe, to the bike and pedestrian safety infrastructure, to bridge repairs along the Columbia River - which is going to fall down any time if we do not keep our investments there - to the Spokane Corridor, like every corner of our state. Those things would all be on hold because transportation revenue had been going down since I've been in the Legislature and before then. And this was a critical revenue, new revenue that was really something that we can count on to be able to make sure that we have a clean, healthy infrastructure and transportation.

The other, of course, is on the capital gains side - that is on the very wealthiest only when they do transactions. So it's not on their base salary, it's not on even their extra salary. It's on when they're doing transactions over $250,000 - which I don't make in a year and a lot of my neighbors and people in Washington don't. And that is the revenue that we're using to allow childcare providers to begin to be paid what it actually costs to provide childcare. Childcare providers have been subsidizing the state for providing childcare since the inception. And so we are starting to be able to put in enough slots so that we actually could have childcare. As a parent, you have to search for it - you usually can't find it. Once you find it, it's expensive. And yet the people that are providing it are barely able to stay in their own homes or be able to provide childcare for themselves. Fair Start for Kids, which is funded by our capital gains tax - that's very modest compared to other states - and this is what's allowing us to actually build that out. And we're starting to see that difference.

The last one is long-term care, which we've spoken about. And that initiative really is looking to say - we're creating a program that would actually provide critical services when people most need it. And we're the only state that's doing this because the private sector has not been able to provide long-term care and the Feds are not doing it. Washington is leading the way and showing that this can be done. But again, we haven't even gotten a chance. And in this last session, we made a lot of improvements to this program - to make it portable, to make it so even if you are near retirement you will be able to get a percentage of what you put in - so everyone's kept whole with the program the way it is, only if we can get the program off the ground and let it get a chance to show the difference it can make in people's lives. All of these are going to create a huge hole in our state budget and in every part of state government - and resources and services that people depend on will be on the lines of not being able to be fulfilled if these initiatives are not defeated in the November ballot.

[00:20:26] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Well, there are going to be a number of consequential decisions on our November ballot - those three major statewide initiatives that we just talked about. Also, a number of statewide races, including the Commissioner of Public Lands race that we just spoke about. As people who are listening are considering who to vote for, what they're talking about, what should be prioritized - you've certainly put a lot of thought into what the priorities and the agenda for our next Commissioner of Public Lands should be. What's your advice for what voters should be looking for and what the vision for this next Commissioner of Public Lands should be?

[00:21:07] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Thank you. I think a couple of things. One is environmental justice needs to be centered in how they run their campaign and then how they lead once they're elected. Because what we know is big timbered interests and the status quo is very strong. And so if you don't build that coalition - with women, with immigrants, with tribes, with rural communities - as you are running your campaign, then we can't trust that once they get there, they're all of a sudden going to turn and value those relationships and value those voices and those leaders. So that's a fundamental as CPL. And the race is - How are they planning to run their campaign? Who are they hiring? And where are they going to put their resources as they are running? Because who runs and wins at CPL needs to be a strong champion and support the No on I-2117 and continue to hold big corporations accountable. They need to be really clear about how they're going to run their campaign to inspire people and regular folks to care about these initiatives and say no on the initiatives and yes on a future that includes our communities. They cannot take the Latino population for granted. We have the opportunity to flip the 14th Legislative District this year with three amazing candidates. And we need to know that a statewide campaign is actually going to take care and think about the 14th Legislative District, the 17th, the 18th - that they're not just going to only care about King County, but that they're going to care about all parts and pockets of our state.

I think the other piece is just in terms of once they win and are thinking about that, they need to consult women and tribes and labor and immigrant communities about who they're hiring and who they're retaining in their leadership circle and in their executive positions. That they need a bigger tent - not a smaller one - in terms of actually thinking about the culture change that needs to happen at CPL, while also respecting the workforce that's there. The workforce is doing what they've been told is their job. And so we can't just throw them under the bus - this next CPL needs to be there to really support and transition. And that takes leadership. So in terms of how that looks, it's elevating the Environmental Justice Director and our Tribal Relations Director to the executive level so they can exert their full authority to manage our natural resources for the public benefit of all Washingtonians, not deep down in their tree that they currently have in terms of where those folks are. They need to be a collaborative leader who will partner with other state agencies and not impede our climate-based science and common sense implementation. They need to commit to reducing the impact of industrial agricultural grazing on public lands on land health and water quality. And they need to support migrant and agriculture workers' right to organize, to fight for thriving wages and benefits, and utilize this role to be a platform to support migrant workers' access to public goods, to unemployment insurance - regardless of their status. CPL uses right now temporary workforce to run their nurseries. And one of the candidates running has told me that he thinks that was a mistake for us to remove the exemption for overtime for farmworkers. And Big Timber and Big Ag want us to give them preferences to not have to pay overtime for their workforce during the large portion of the harvest when workers could actually earn overtime - they want the workers to be excluded then and have put me on their watch list as someone that is anti-farm and anti-agriculture. What I'm anti is having it be on the backs of workers that the commodification of our ag and of our forest was a policy decision done hundreds of years ago. And we can make policy decisions differently going forward to value food sovereignty and value the farmers and the farmworkers that harvest our timber or produce our apples and all of the food and fruits that we love and enjoy.

[00:25:17] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Very important to consider. There are several candidates in that race - I know you've been asked about endorsing. Where do you stand when it comes to endorsing in that race?

[00:25:29] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah, how I'm thinking about it right now is - I've put out my platform and I've put out what I think are some bottom lines that I want to see from them. So their agreement that they will lead on that and some concrete steps of how they plan to do that - show their campaign. And also listening to my own community - that was who I listened to both in terms of running and thinking about my race. So that will be a first step - is that I would want to see how they respond. to these demands. And I think the other piece too is what it takes to invest in a campaign to win - how they plan to do that. I feel like for me, now that I decided not to be in that race - where most of my energy and time needs to be is on defeating those initiatives and supporting the Senate to be positioned to be able to legislate after November. So we have a lot of different races - I'm the chair of our Kennedy PAC in the Senate Democratic Caucus. And part of our job is to make sure that we are being better partners with communities across our state - to support them, to have representatives that represent their values to come to Olympia, and then support them to be able to legislate, to be able to hopefully be in a position where we have defeated those initiatives and they're saying - how are we going forward to make sure that as we implement in the next set of policies we put forward are ones that are going to continue to put people first, hold big polluters accountable, and make sure that cement has dried and we're actually starting to build the kind of partnership and infrastructure that the people of Washington deserve.

[00:27:01] Crystal Fincher: So speaking of legislating after November in the Senate, I think there were a number of policies that would do a better job serving more of our residents everywhere when it comes to some of the biggest challenges that people are facing when it comes to just affordability of so much - whether it's housing costs, food costs, transportation and transit costs. Across the board, we saw some promising legislation pass the House that did not wind up passing the Senate. So I guess my question is twofold. What should the priorities be, particularly in the Senate, next year when it comes to the session? And what can be done to help get the Senate closer to where so many in the community want them to be?

[00:27:52] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Good question. I think part of it is activating listeners now. Right now, we have every member of the House, and we have quite a few members in the Senate - including the possibility of five new senators that could be in my caucus - that need support, need guidance, and need to be held accountable about what their principles are. We need intersectional justice champions. And when we have people with lived experience - we have great candidates that are running - it's making sure that what do we mean by housing affordability. And making sure that renters who are a growing population across our state - because of the unaffordability of homeownership - making sure that they have some security in their livelihoods. We had a great policy of rent stabilization, and we are closer than ever in being able to get those votes. I was one of the original prime sponsors of a much more bold, just remove the exemption around rent stabilization in my first two years there. And so we are building a lot of education and awareness. And it is going to happen next year, as long as we continue to build our coalitions, as long as this continues to be an issue and a question as people are knocking on doors and looking for your personal endorsements - the people that are listening - is really critical.

I think the other piece is we've done a lot of great climate policy and have done a lot of what I call down payments on the Housing Trust Fund, on education, on childcare, and on healthcare. And so I think the piece is - in order for us to get to the next level, we need to have a full conversation about holding the line on these revenues that we have before us right now - on the capital gains and Climate Commitment. But then we should not be satisfied with the second-to-last worst state in the nation for regressive taxes. That is great that we're not the last anymore, but the next step is how do we update and modernize our revenues so that again, there's more balance between who's burdened and who's benefiting. And that is definitely a conversation that we're starting to have within our caucus as we're preparing for next session. But we can't get ahead of ourselves. We need to hold the line first. And then the next step would be what looks different with a bigger majority in the Senate? And how do we make sure that we do big and bold things while we have a membership - and knocking on wood, because that is my hope, that we will have grown my caucus next year with real folks that are going to be intersectional justice champions.

[00:30:32] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. I also want to talk about local government and policy at the local level, which is really important. We have here in King County and in the city of Seattle, some significant budget challenges with potentially a lot on the chopping block. At the same time, really ambitious goals that have been set forth and a ways to go to meet them - for meeting climate policies and goals for 2030 and beyond, which is right around the corner, and will take significant action to meet them. When it comes to city and county level policy, both here in Seattle and King County and across the state, what should be those top priorities and what should be top of mind?

[00:31:19] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Well, to me, climate justice - got to be the center of it. And if you are serious about climate justice, it means that - what I've said from the beginning is more of Seattle needs to look like my neighborhoods, which is in South Seattle - in terms of we need to be embracing, what I say, global majorities. That is how Washington should be growing - is embracing global majority populations and also making sure that we are actually meeting our climate goals by centering equity. Equity is a superior growth model. It is the only way to grow forward that doesn't actually make things worse for more of us. And so it means looking at our Comprehensive Plan and making sure that we are saying yes to smart, beautiful, innovative growth. And that means stopping the McMansions that we have because we continue to say that we can only have single-family units in most of our neighborhoods. Single-family is preventing us from saying yes to making our carbon footprint smaller. So I think that is a huge piece.

The other piece is that we've got to double down in supporting the way forward, which is thinking about health as the center. And that means continuing to support - and I know our locals are trying, the revenue is a challenge - and next year, we plan to tackle that revenue more at the state level as a partner. But it means that they need to double down and stay clear about the revenues they have, like the JumpStart is about Equitable Development Initiative. It is about the revenues that were set forward - it's not smearing it around. It's doubling down on the newer policies, which are the policies that will close gaps. And that's the part that's a challenge - is that so many folks, local governments will want to cut what's the newest thing. But especially because we've had a reckoning, we've had COVID, we've had Black Lives Matter - and in order for us to actually make things better, it means we have to double down on saying yes to the things that we know are critical and figure out ways to go back to some of the things that have been around for 100 years and say, like, do we have to do it that way? Is there some innovation there that we can be saving money as opposed to letting go of the things that are just barely beginning to make a difference in how our government is responding? And it's really important so that the people that are our future feel like there's hope and a willingness to invest in our local governments. So I think that's hard because it's harder to stand up for something that's new. But it is advice that I definitely would give our locals - is that they should double down on the new things because that's what's going to create the infrastructure that we need for our unhoused neighbors. It's this infrastructure that's going to help people that are dealing with multiple health issues from behavior health to addiction to a lifetime of living in EJ communities. And so I think that's the part that's hard. I know it's not an easy solution, but I do really recommend that facing climate change and facing the inequities means that we have to do hard things. And that it is worth it because we only get one chance and we're not all going to be elected forever. We're not kings and queens. We're here for the moment that we have. And it's like, how as electeds are we going to do the best we can to push the ball forward while still holding ground?

[00:34:53] Crystal Fincher: It's really important. It's looking tougher in some areas than others, but it does look like residents engaging in the process is making a difference - that at minimum people are taking notice and feeling an increasing amount of pressure to be responsive to what community needs. So what would your advice be to listeners about how to engage, especially as we have so many people running for office now - candidates at so many levels of government, including a Seattle City Council race. How should they be engaging? What should they be asking? What's your advice?

[00:35:32] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Great question. Here's the thing - is that at the end of the day, we're all human beings. And some of us are in better places than others on that life journey. What I would say is that you need to organize and be in community, and candidates are only as good as the base that's there to support them, to be good on the campaign, and then follow through once they're in. And so if you choose a candidate or a couple, you want to work with them and push them. Push them to be able to show up and then don't write them off once they're there. Keep them engaged. They need to stay rooted in the communities that brought them there to make sure that they're following through. And I think the other piece too is we can organize and we can hold people accountable - and it doesn't mean that they're bad people - but we need to hold them accountable. So I think that's the piece too - is there's a vision. We need to organize around it, we need to stay focused on it, and we need to not lose hope. The last piece too is just recognize that this fight for democracy is our fight every year, and there's no taking it for granted. At the same time, each of us can only do as much as we can. And so be kind to yourself as you're engaging in democracy - and figure out what's your piece, and do that, and do it as well as you can. And then trust in your community that other people will show up if you need to take a break.

[00:37:00] Crystal Fincher: I think that's great advice. One question - when you say hold them accountable, what does that mean? What does that look like in practice?

[00:37:09] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Yeah, obviously there's the idea of running someone against them the next time. But I think in between, it's like invite them in or ask to meet with them. This is something - when my community and I were in a disagreement around a strategy, around a policy, was to have an accountability session and meet with them and explain where I'm coming from, hear where they're coming from, and stay in relationship. We don't have time - especially in Seattle, especially in Washington - to be writing people off and saying, You're gone. We need to stay in relationship - even when we disagree. Because it's so easy just to go talk to the three people that we like, but in order for democracy to work - we need to talk to every one of them and figure out how to get them to yes, how to understand where they're coming from, and if they can't be a yes, how do we work around them? But we can - and I've done this - like people that I don't think they have my shared values. But if we organize and help them see themselves, we can get them to get to be a vote for us that is really critical for our policies. And so I think being creative, being not stuck, and staying in relationship can create a lot more change long-term. Because it's a small community - we're always going to run into each other. And so I think we have to be really careful about who we're going to just say - They're going to be gone forever. And that's me as a middle child, that's me maybe as the only girl. Like, who knows? But I feel like that has been something that is important to me because otherwise we end up with people feeling that they are going to take over - we end up with a January 6th. We need to figure out how do we keep as many people engaged and seeing themselves as part of this democracy, because the alternative to me is not something I want to experience.

[00:39:07] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Right now we have a lot that we need to fight against - we have initiatives that are mounting up opposition efforts and really spreading the word, we're fighting to prevent cuts to programs and services that our communities are relying on, we're fighting to keep our statewide climate response on track. And sometimes it's easy to focus solely on what we don't want and lose sight of what we do want and what our vision is. So I guess as you're navigating through that whole thing and focusing on fighting initiatives, what is your North Star? What is your vision that keeps you grounded, that keeps you focused and saying - This is what I am working for and working towards?

[00:40:00] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: One is that the future and the present that I want is something that is a life worth living and one that's more joyful. And so in 2016, I had two things when I first went to the Legislature that I wrote. One is centering the margins and knowing that by lifting up grassroots leaders and creating conditions for women of color, immigrants, younger and older voices to have a say and shape our lives and our economy is the solution. We don't have to have everything, but by bringing more of us at the table to shape and be engaged is the solution and is the process. And the other that I say to myself is - what I'm looking for is solidarity, not charity, not shame and not guilt. And so I think - I just had this image for myself today and I'll share it with your listeners is that it is so heavy, the things that we carry as people. And yet it does us no good to carry that really heavy backpack - so how do we do this thing where we have that backpack, maybe we get the roller suitcase, or maybe we just know that we can take that off. Because I think so many of us - I will say for myself - is I realized that I'm always carrying the backpack. And it doesn't allow me to dance, it doesn't allow me to be flexible, doesn't allow me to be as present as I need to be or want to be - because it's in that presence in that moment, that we actually can find new solutions to old problems. And so I know for myself, it is physically reminding myself - I need to take that backpack off, that's not only who we are. And so I think that's the piece that I would just say is that each of us need to do that and then show up in community as much in our breath and our body as possible. Because otherwise, we're creating the frenzy - we're not part and we're not actually in a place where we're able to create the solution. And we're not allowing that space for - I'll go back to the cement to dry - sometimes it is about we do the work and we have to give it space. And so I hope that's helpful to people. I know it's like for myself - this is a journey, and so I'm just grateful to be on the journey.

[00:42:10] Crystal Fincher: Well, I'm grateful that you took the time to speak with us today to enlighten our listeners. And just appreciate the work that you continue to do. Thank you, Senator Rebecca Saldaña, for joining us.

[00:42:23] Senator Rebecca Saldaña: Thank you so much - so good talking with you.

[00:42:25] Crystal Fincher: Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks, which is produced by Shannon Cheng. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on every podcast service and app - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review shows and our Tuesday topical show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes.

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