Shoreline Mayor Highlights City's Progress on Housing, Development, and Public Safety

“South Shoreline Light Rail Brings Suburban Retrofit with Thousands of Homes” by Urbanist Staff from The Urbanist

“Shoreline North Station Sees New Urban Connection Form” by Urbanist Staff from The Urbanist

Picture It: Shoreline 2044 | City of Shoreline 2024 Comprehensive Plan Update

“Shoreline Council Gets Cold Feet Over Broad Rezone Allowing Fourplexes” by Ryan Packer from The Urbanist

Resident Satisfaction Surveys | City of Shoreline

2024 City of Shoreline Resident Satisfaction Survey Findings Report | City of Shoreline

“Why is Aurora Avenue crime concentrated in Seattle, not Shoreline?” by Amy Radil from KUOW

Regional Crisis Response Agency (RCR) | City of Shoreline

“How 5 King County cities are reimagining care for people in crisis” by Taylor Blatchford from The Seattle Times

North King County Enhanced Shelter | City of Shoreline

Tenant Protections | City of Shoreline

[00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review show and our Tuesday topical show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, the most helpful thing you can do is leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes.

Today, I am very excited to be welcoming to the program Mayor Chris Roberts from the City of Shoreline - Seattle's neighbor to the north - to have a conversation about what's going on in the city today. Welcome, Mayor Roberts.

[00:01:10] Mayor Chris Roberts: It's good to be here.

[00:01:12] Crystal Fincher: Great to have you here. So I guess starting out, what was your path to mayor in the City of Shoreline?

[00:01:20] Mayor Chris Roberts: Shoreline has a council-manager form of government. I've been on the council since 2010, and this is my second stint as mayor. So in a council-manager form of government, the seven of us decide who's going to be mayor. And in Shoreline, we like to rotate who serves as mayor. I was active as a college Democrat, I was active in the Obama campaign in 2008, and that got the attention of some of the people here in Shoreline, saying that - You should run for office. Here I was, a graduate student at the University of Washington - I was working on my PhD. And they said - Hey, you're a good organizer. You should come and run for council. I believe they also thought I had some good values and that I would make a good contribution to the city. And so that first year in 2009, I knocked on nearly 10,000 doors and was elected to the council. It was a close race, but it was a solid victory - had a lot of help. And then I've been working with the council for the last 14 years.

[00:02:29] Crystal Fincher: When people that you encounter across the region, or who unfortunately don't make it outside of the city limits of Seattle to visit neighbors to the north, how do you describe Shoreline? How do you present Shoreline when they ask - Okay, so what's going on there?

[00:02:46] Mayor Chris Roberts: I like to say that Shoreline is a medium-sized city that has big dreams. We've done a lot in terms of really leading the region on many of the issues we care about - from housing, to caring about the environment and addressing climate change, to big infrastructure projects. We've taken the lead on not only rebuilding Highway 99 - our section of Aurora Avenue - to make it pedestrian-friendly, to really having a big, bold vision for our light rail stations at 148th and 185th.

[00:03:23] Crystal Fincher: And so I want to talk about that - a very exciting development in Shoreline - which is opening of light rail, which hopefully will bring a lot more people to and through the city and beyond. Light rail is now open in the city of Shoreline from Seattle up to Lynnwood, all the way south right now down to the Angle Lake station in SeaTac. Soon will be the Kent Des Moines Station and then eventually down to Federal Way. But this is a really big deal. What does this mean for Shoreline?

[00:03:56] Mayor Chris Roberts: It really connects Shoreline residents to the rest of the region. We don't have to rely on trying to figure out how long it's going to take to get on I-5 and get to downtown or past downtown Seattle. You never knew - some days it could be an hour just to get to downtown, sometimes it could take 15 minutes to get to downtown - depending on where in Shoreline you're from. But traffic is just such a variable in the region. And with light rail, you know that there's going to be a consistent trip time to get from Shoreline to downtown Seattle or to SeaTac, and then soon to get to Bellevue and Redmond. And so people are going to come, people are going to explore the city. People are going to be able to get to the Crest Theater, which is in the Ridgecrest neighborhood near 148th Station. People will be able to get to the North City at 185th. People are going to be able to go to Mountlake Terrace and to Lynnwood and explore what's there. That's just so exciting because people will be able to get a one-seat ride to go to all these places that they may not have thought about before. And there's going to be a lot of new development, a lot of new housing developments around the stations. There's going to be a lot of new businesses around these stations. And so, there's going to be a vibrancy that's going to develop around these light rail stations - each of the stations is going to have its own vibe. But what we have planned in Shoreline is really to make sure that we're going to have lots of density, we're going to have lots of businesses around these stations.

[00:05:28] Crystal Fincher: I do want to talk about and explore the city's approach to development around these stations. What has been the approach? What is there now? And what is planned?

[00:05:39] Mayor Chris Roberts: Right now, there has been - and there largely is - a single-family neighborhood around both of the stations at 148th and 185th. When I-5 was developed, I-5 just cut a big wedge between the neighborhoods in Shoreline - and so the neighborhoods were cut off from each other. And so with light rail, what we planned - starting in 2013, 2014 - we really believed that we wanted to take advantage of the billion dollar investment that the region is putting into Shoreline, to Mountlake Terrace, and to Lynnwood. And so we wanted to make sure that more people had access to the station, more people could live near the station so they wouldn't have to rely on a car - they could get from home to work and to places for entertainment easily. And so we did that - we made that conscious effort that we wanted to see vibrancy around these stations. And so in 2014 and 2015, we adopted plans that would upzone and change these neighborhoods. And we've seen a lot of development already occurring - most of that's happened around the 148th Street Station, especially on the west side of the station. And we're going to be building a pedestrian bridge that goes across I-5 from the station to that west side of I-5 - where this development is occurring - so people can easily walk and access the light rail station.

[00:07:19] Crystal Fincher: That seems exciting. What do the prospects look like for addressing housing and density needs beyond the transit station areas right now in Shoreline?

[00:07:29] Mayor Chris Roberts: So we're working through our Comprehensive Plan now. And we are going to meet and exceed the state's guidelines around middle housing. We're looking somewhere between allowing fourplexes and sixplexes everywhere. Depending on where the council lands, I'm optimistic that we're going to go towards six units everywhere on every parcel. I'm also optimistic that we can have a zero parking requirement across the city. One of the things that we care about in Shoreline is we care about our environment, we care about heat islands, we care about preservation of trees. And so we know that you can't have housing and parking and trees. You can't have all three of those things. And so, the things we care about are housing and our environment. And so - to me, and I think to a majority of my council - we really do recognize that we cannot have all three. Parking just doesn't make sense.

[00:08:35] Crystal Fincher: Now, in prior conversations among the council, or reports of those, it seems like there has been some hesitance when it comes to actually implementing those policies in the Comprehensive Plan to move forward on density, to move forward and reducing some of the parking mandates - which are very costly to cities - but there are still a number of people who feel hesitant about increasing density, who have concerns about what they are viewing as neighborhood character and maintaining that. How has the council navigated through those conversations and where are the sticking points?

[00:09:17] Mayor Chris Roberts: We're still navigating through those sticking points. What was brought to us a few months ago was the recognition that some neighborhoods have seen a lot of transformation over the last few years. And some of the things that we want have not necessarily come about in the first wave of development - we have not necessarily seen businesses come into these neighborhoods. So when we think about the neighborhood amenities, those things have not quite developed. When we first adopted our townhome requirements, we realized we made a mistake - that some of the townhomes, instead of facing the street and the public right-of-way, they faced inward. And so when you're trying to build community, those townhouses who face inward really were more isolating than inviting in terms of building a community. And so people and residents of Shoreline, especially in one neighborhood, were saying - Hey, look, you didn't get it right. We want to see sidewalks. We want to see local businesses. And expressed concerns - and rightfully expressed concerns - about how development had been occurring. Now we've made changes - we now have our townhome requirements so that a majority of the townhomes have to face the street. So again, more inviting and more neighborhood-centric. We have a new requirement that in both our multifamily zones, we're requiring commercial to go in - not just sort of built to commercial standards, but you actually will have commercial retail coming into those areas. And so these things are going to help make these developments feel more connected with the greater community. And so where the council is right now is just trying to figure out how to integrate our desire for more housing and make sure that all of it fits within our conceptions of being neighborhood-centric.

[00:11:22] Crystal Fincher: That all makes sense. When it comes to the amount of housing in our growing region that the City of Shoreline has projected to need to absorb, what is that number and are you looking at meeting that in your Comprehensive Plan?

[00:11:38] Mayor Chris Roberts: We are going to meet our growth targets in our Comprehensive Plan. I will say - I don't know the exact number offhand, but we are definitely on track to meet and exceed the growth targets given by the county. But where we are going to struggle - and I think where all communities are going to struggle - is trying to meet the targets for affordable housing. Property values in Shoreline are high - maybe not as high as some neighborhoods in Seattle or on the Eastside, but property values are high. And it's going to be a challenge to make sure that we provide and build enough housing for people under 50% area median income. That's going to be our challenge - and I think we need to continue to work with our partners from the state to the federal government to our nonprofits like Habitat to try to build enough housing for people at 50% or below.

[00:12:37] Crystal Fincher: I've heard some folks from other cities express concern or worry about how the City of Seattle is proceeding with their Comprehensive Plan and looking like they may wind up not absorbing, not planning to accommodate all of the housing that looks like it's going to be necessary, which has - over the last several years - created some larger-than-expected displacement from people in Seattle to other cities, like Shoreline, like south King County cities, some to the Eastside. But really, in addition to people moving into the region, there are people moving into cities coming from the city of Seattle - increasing the amount of housing even beyond what's projected from people moving from outside the region. How does that affect the city of Shoreline, or does it?

[00:13:32] Mayor Chris Roberts: I'll say a couple of things. First, I think that in terms of meeting its growth target, and also where housing has been developed over the last five years especially, the city of Seattle has seen a lot of growth and a lot of development. It may not be sufficient for everyone. It may not be necessarily helping those people who are at 50% or under area median income. But we have seen a lot of development within the city of Seattle itself - we see a lot of it in North Seattle, around Northgate, along Highway 99 - there's been a lot of new development, a lot of new apartments that have been built in that area. And just looking at the numbers, there's been a lot of housing that's been built across the city of Seattle. Could the City of Seattle be a little bit bolder in their housing policies? Probably. I think that some of the cities on the north end are doing a spectacular job at really embracing the need to provide housing for our residents. If you look at the north side of the lake - look at Shoreline, look at Bothell, look at Kenmore - look at our Comprehensive Plans and I think that people will say - You guys are doing a really good job. And I think that's true. I think we have been very conscientious up here on the North End that we want to do our part. We're embracing the desire to have more people because we know that more people means more and stronger, more healthier businesses. All of this are good things for our city. They help make our city more sustainable. And so when we look at all of what's happening - yes, I think the City of Seattle could learn from us. But I think that we have to be cognizant that we've seen a lot of development within the city of Seattle - we've seen a lot of development around its light rail stations.

[00:15:41] Crystal Fincher: Sure, absolutely. Now, I do want to talk about something that I think is admirable in Shoreline - and that we've seen some attempts at in other cities, but Shoreline seems to do it a bit more rigorously or a bit more successfully - and that is a survey of Shoreline residents that you do. What is this survey and what do you learn from it?

[00:16:03] Mayor Chris Roberts: We do a citizen satisfaction survey every two years. We contract with a survey provider who goes out and asks a series of questions every couple years. They usually get about between 600 and 1,000 respondents - people living within the city, all across the city. And we are able to use the survey to sort of track and measure how our residents are feeling about city services on a regular basis. And so we're able to see how people are feeling - people's perceptions around our street maintenance, people's perception around public safety, people's perception around city leadership. We're able to find out information - where people are getting their information about the city - through the survey. And then we also find out - every other year we have a different question asking about particular priorities. This year, we asked a question around people's feelings around climate change and needed infrastructure improvements.

[00:17:13] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, absolutely. And I do really like that you seem to very closely track - based on the responses - where you're improving, where there's room for improvement, and how that sentiment is moving and changing over the years. So the most recent survey findings came out in August - and what did you learn? Or what did the residents of the city say that they most wanted the city to focus on? And what did they say that they were pretty satisfied with?

[00:17:41] Mayor Chris Roberts: Well, in most areas, the residents of Shoreline said that they saw significant improvement in many areas - I think there were 20 different areas we saw significant improvement on. In terms of where we still are falling short - or at least where our residents say that we need more emphasis - public safety, infrastructure, housing, homelessness. Those are the big areas. It's something that we knew, but it's always good to get confirmation that these are the areas that we need to address.

[00:18:16] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And in this, I thought there were some pretty interesting responses. Most of the residents who had an opinion felt very safe or safe in their neighborhood during the day. 78% said they felt safe overall in Shoreline, 72% felt safe at night. Another interesting question there was how much they trusted the city with their tax dollars. And it looks like two-thirds of the city said that either they somewhat or strongly agreed that they can trust the city to spend tax dollars responsibly. Which I don't know if people are familiar with how those responses often go in many cities - that's a relatively high number there. What do you attribute that to and how do you translate those survey responses into city policy?

[00:19:05] Mayor Chris Roberts: So, I believe that we try to be very transparent in what we do. We send out a bi-monthly newsletter to all residents talking about what we're doing within the city. We highlight public safety, we highlight our transportation projects - so people see where their tax dollars are going. And I think by focusing on the priorities of the residents, residents feel comfortable that what we're doing is right. And I think that our residents appreciate all the work we do. They appreciate the fact that - we have gone out to our voters and asked them for levy increases, we've asked our voters for increase in our sales tax for sidewalks - and we're delivering on what we say we're going to do.

[00:20:05] Crystal Fincher: Now, I do want to talk about public safety in Shoreline, starting with news recently - that became news because of the City of Seattle deciding to implement zones where people engaging in or suspected of prostitution activity are prohibited from being in certain areas. There have been concerns with how that's implemented - this is a policy that previously existed in Seattle that the City moved away from, after feeling it did more harm than good. This is a policy that was introduced by Seattle City Councilmember Cathy Moore, who said that she was inspired to do it by the City of Shoreline and a policy that Shoreline had in place since, I think, the Twenty-Teens. However, when reporting was done - I believe it was KUOW reporting - talked to officials, the police chief in Shoreline, they said - Hey, we actually have not enforced that law in several years and we attribute the difference to a number of other factors like environmental improvements, infrastructure improvements and so forth. Why do you think that the area of Aurora Avenue, which is just north of where there are significant challenges currently being experienced in the city of Seattle, is largely free of those challenges in the city of Shoreline, just in an adjacent section of that same street? Why has it gone right in Shoreline?

[00:21:41] Mayor Chris Roberts: Why? I don't have the exact answer. I'll say the same things our chief has said, our city officials have said - that it's a variety of factors. I think having more people, having a very pedestrian-friendly infrastructure on Highway 99 helps. It means that there's more eyes on what's happening in the city because more people feel comfortable walking up and down Highway 99. I think that some of the decisions that our chief has made in terms of focusing on the sources of prostitution, those people who are exploiting the workers - that has an impact.

[00:22:24] Crystal Fincher: And are you saying that it's a differentiation from focusing on people engaging in sex work themselves - focusing on those who are patronizing them?

[00:22:34] Mayor Chris Roberts: Maybe not even so much who's patronizing, but people who are profiting off of sex work. That's where our focus is on - where we want to help the individuals who are engaged in sex work. But our focus and the law enforcement effort is on people who are profiting from sex work - not the women who may be trafficked, not the women who may be exploited.

[00:22:59] Crystal Fincher: Right. Going after those who are potentially exploiting people - putting them in vulnerable or dangerous positions - as opposed to those people who are most vulnerable and most at risk of harm?

[00:23:12] Mayor Chris Roberts: Yes. I know - and I strongly believe - that when we think about crime and public safety, it is very expensive for cities to jail individuals for misdemeanors. We need to solve the root problems of crime. We need to make sure that people are housed, that people have jobs and jobs with dignity. That's what we need to focus on - that it's so much easier to help someone when they're in a stable living environment. It's harder and more expensive for cities to help people when they are individuals without a home, individuals who need mental health services. It's harder to do without a stable living environment. And so our focus really has been to try to help people upstream and not penalize people for actions downstream - because it's hard and more expensive than people think to jail someone. It's a challenge - we need to keep people safe, we need to make people feel safe on the streets. But we have to make sure we actually help the person. We need to help victims. We need to help the people who are in situations where they feel that just jailing someone is not sufficient - it's not providing people the help that they need.

[00:24:45] Crystal Fincher: It's not addressing that root problem and will continue unless that problem is addressed. Now, I do want to talk about another approach to public safety that the City of Shoreline is taking and involved in - that we've talked about previously on this show - and that is the RCR [Regional Crisis Response] program. What is that and how is it going in Shoreline right now?

[00:25:09] Mayor Chris Roberts: RCR is a coalition of five cities - the City of Shoreline, Lake Forest Park, Kenmore, Bothell, and Kirkland - and that's providing mental health and other supports to people who need it. Instead of relying on a police response, we have full-time individuals who are going out and working to de-escalate situations, working to help connect people to mental health support, to other resources that individuals need. And so it started by a program that the City of Shoreline did in terms of trying to get people to de-escalate situations. And now it's really - if there is something out there, that something is happening that doesn't need or may not need a police response, we have people going out and actually trying to connect people to resources.

[00:26:05] Crystal Fincher: Now, are these people co-responding with police? Are they responding on their own? How does that work?

[00:26:12] Mayor Chris Roberts: It depends on the situation. And I think that there's a lot of co-response going right now, but I think we're moving towards a situation where these individuals will be responding more and more independently.

[00:26:26] Crystal Fincher: What have been the impacts or results that you've seen from that so far?

[00:26:31] Mayor Chris Roberts: I don't think we have the data to really show those results, but I do know that there's enough anecdotal data to say this is really supported by the community, that the community knows that this is the right approach to many of the public safety problems that are experienced in Shoreline and across the region - that not everything needs a police response. And our police are really supportive of this. Our chief - all the chiefs in the North End - have really embraced this program and believe that this is part of the right approach to policing across the cities.

[00:27:09] Crystal Fincher: Is this something that is, or will be, freeing up police resources to respond to more serious high-level criminal activity? And is this something that can help with those concerns in Shoreline?

[00:27:26] Mayor Chris Roberts: That's the plan - yes. That's what we want - is we want our police to focus on the things that only police can do. And that's focusing on those serious crimes - things like traffic enforcement, things that are unique within the primary duties of a police officer.

[00:27:45] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And so you're saying you're looking at, or it looks like this is heading in the direction of, an increasing amount of situations where they'll be able to be dispatched and respond alone, without officers, to handle those situations on their own unless some backup is needed?

[00:28:04] Mayor Chris Roberts: Yes.

[00:28:06] Crystal Fincher: Is there a timeline anticipated for that?

[00:28:08] Mayor Chris Roberts: I don't have a timeline. The City of Kirkland is the lead agency for this program, and so they have all the info. I'm just a lowly mayor who...

[00:28:22] Crystal Fincher: Oh, goodness - anything but. Well, I do want to talk about how Shoreline is dealing with homelessness, what is the situation right now, and what approach Shoreline is taking to reduce the amount of people who don't have homes, who are sleeping on the street, or are experiencing housing instability? That was the number one area that residents indicated should receive the most emphasis over the next two years - was the response to homelessness. So what is the approach that Shoreline is taking and what have the trends been over the past few years?

[00:28:59] Mayor Chris Roberts: I'll start by saying that I'm proud that Shoreline readily embraced an enhanced shelter within the city of Shoreline a few years ago. We had a former nursing home that was about to go on the market and Lake City Partners was able to work with King County to identify the site as - this is a good site for an enhanced shelter. And the council readily embraced it. And the residents were a little bit apprehensive at the beginning, but recognized that there were no problems - or there are very few problems - that have happened with the shelter. Many of the fears of having a shelter in the city limits were unfounded. And so I'm happy that the city has really said - We're going to step up. We're going to do our part. We're not going to say no. The city has done several things - when we rebuilt Highway 99, we had some extra property left over through acquisitions. And we said, as a council, we're going to build homes there and we're going to make it available for individuals who are coming out of homelessness. And so now, instead of what was a old dilapidated tire store, there's now over 100 units for people who are under 50% AMI. We have, as the city - the last few years, we've increased our funding to help people stay in their homes, working with Hopelink to provide more utility assistance, to provide other assistance, to make sure people stay in their homes and don't have to lose their homes. And so we're working right now to expand our program that will allow individuals who are low-income breaks on their wastewater bills. And so we're doing what we can to try to keep people in their homes, keep people stable - rather than have people experience having to leave their homes and leave that kind of permanent situation. Again, it's sort of the same thing - we think about public safety. We keep people in their homes - we're going to solve a lot of problems there instead of having to wait and spend a lot more to try to get people back home. But we have seen an increase in the number of individuals who are unhoused in the city of Shoreline. Looking at the Shoreline School District and how the school districts interpret individuals who are homeless, there's about one student in every classroom who is not in a permanent housing situation. So there's still a lot of work to do, but we are committed to making sure that people are housed and people have a stable living environment. If you have a stable living environment and keep people in a stable living environment, it's so much easier to get people the help they need.

[00:31:51] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And that enhanced shelter can provide 24-7 shelter services for up to 60 individuals. And it's not a low-barrier shelter. It's a - I believe - drug and alcohol-free shelter, saying that people need to be able to practice safe practices for their neighbors who are going to be there. Are there services available for people who are struggling with challenges that would prevent them from being able to participate in that shelter - they have substance use disorder, dealing with challenges in that way? What are those options for those people who may be unhoused?

[00:32:28] Mayor Chris Roberts: We have some resources in the city of Shoreline, but many of those resources are limited. And we're not perfect - there's a lot more we need to do. We need to make sure that, as a region, that the services are provided throughout the county - that there is no city, there's no area in the county that does not need all of those resources. There are people who are struggling in north King County, just as they're struggling in south King County. And so when we think about resources - whether it's senior centers, whether it's services for veterans - we need to make sure that those services are located throughout the county.

[00:33:14] Crystal Fincher: Now, it also looks like Shoreline has stronger-than-average tenant protections, when we look at the level of protection statewide. Was that an intentional concerted effort to make sure you are protecting renters, who have been growing as a percentage of residents?

[00:33:32] Mayor Chris Roberts: Yes. We just adopted our tenant protections last year. We do recognize there is a balance in terms of making sure that there are homes that are available for rent, and also making sure that the tenants who live there are protected. And I believe the state has not gone far enough to protect renters across the state. And so if the state doesn't step up, then cities are going to take the lead.

[00:34:02] Crystal Fincher: Well, and was very happy - I think many people are very happy - to see Shoreline taking the lead there. Well, I sincerely appreciate your time today. And as we close, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you really want folks to know about the city of Shoreline?

[00:34:19] Mayor Chris Roberts: I just will say that Shoreline is and will continue to be a leader on many of the issues that face our region. We recognize that we are in a housing emergency, and so I believe our Comp Plan is going to be a model for the rest of the region. When we think about climate change, our city is very committed to making sure that we are going to protect our environment - and we're going to do what we can to mitigate the effects of climate change and greenhouse gas emissions. When we think about all of these things, I think people are going to take a look at Shoreline and say - You're doing things right. And we're seeing that with the number of people who want to come to Shoreline and the number of people who think that Shoreline is a great place to live.

[00:35:05] Crystal Fincher: Well, thank you so much for your time today, Mayor Roberts - appreciate it. And we'll certainly be keeping our eye out as things unfold in the city. Thanks so much.

[00:35:15] Mayor Chris Roberts: Thank you.

[00:35:16] Crystal Fincher: Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks, which is produced by Shannon Cheng. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on every podcast service and app - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get the full versions of our Friday week-in-review shows and our Tuesday topical show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes.

Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next time.